Chef-Driven Eats at Even Keel Fish Shack

Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of Let's Talk Lauderdale, your go-to resource for the ins and outs and happenings here in South Florida. I'm Marv. I'm Jen.

And it's been a good weekend, at least for me. How was it for you? It was a little busy weekend. Did some moving this weekend. 

So not the young person I thought I was. I had some recovery time on Sunday. Really? Yeah, yeah. 

But all good. We had good weather for it. I worked as well. 

I had a client. We had to move some computers and stuff like that. So it was fun.

Okay. We both worked a little bit. Yep. 

And then Sunday night was family time. And do you have a show that you watch like on a regular basis? You record stuff? I am embarrassed to tell you. 90 days? No, I don't. 

I did the 90 days thing for a while, no longer, but I am a Housewives fan. All the real Housewives. So I do catch up on that. 

And when I turn on the show five minutes in, I'm snoring. So by the time I sit down, it takes me about 20 times to actually watch a show. Really? Okay.

What's your show? So we're right now on the Naked and Afraid. Oh, I used to love that. And this is the apocalypse version.

Apocalypse version. So they just finished the last one standing and they got dropped off in the middle of the desolate South Africa. Okay.

Where there used to be people living. I remember reading that, yeah, people would actually, they would be not too far from where they were dropping people off. Yeah, normally. 

But this place, this is where, this place has been abandoned for years. We're talking dry, dry, like the water holes look like mud holes. How long are they there? They are there, I believe, for 35 days.

Oh no. Why? That show does not give out enough money to put yourself through that. Well, the last one standing, the second time or the third time around, the winner got a hundred grand.

I'm sorry, a hundred grand? No, a million? Maybe, maybe. Yeah, but think about all the exposure. And I'm not talking about the naked exposure.

I'm talking about after the fact, you become a social media star. Most of these people, most of these people are, what's the best word to describe them? So a lot of them are, you know, the naturalist, survivalist. And they're teaching this.

So of course they get students probably afterwards. I guess if they know how to market themselves after and leverage the opportunity. I can tell you, I don't know the name of one Naked and Afraid contestant or winner.

Okay, we're going to move on because I know too many. Okay, I guess this is not my world. We have our favorites.

So that's what we're on. And then we're finishing up the criminal minds evolution. Evolution? Yes.

So you're familiar with the criminal minds? Well, when they went off of CBS regular TV, they were picked up by Netflix. Okay. So it's streaming.

Which means that they can curse and talk about stuff that they couldn't on regular TV. They were like a CBS one, right? So, which was very kind of clean. I feel like CBS dramas are usually very... Yeah, well, they were on the borderline because they did some of that weird crime mind stuff.

Like Law and Order type? More than worse than that. We're talking like psychopaths. I might have to watch this.

The people that do strange things and are creepy and stuff. I do like true crime. Okay.

So I might have to watch this. Dial this up because it is freaky. Okay.

Well, I'm looking forward to Stranger Things coming back. I think it's November. You watched that? Oh, yeah.

You watched that? I did not. Oh, you need to catch up? I think it's November. There's like four seasons.

Okay. I'm really sad that the last season's coming, but I'm excited. Okay.

I'll look it up. It's great. I'm surprised you don't watch it.

You know, I don't have time to watch a lot of shows. So we got to find common ground with me and the wife. Oh, that's... Yeah.

I don't think... I don't know. Is it really... Is it freaky? It's not freaky. Is it half horror? I guess you could consider it.

Yeah, she's not that type. The fact that she's watching Criminal Minds is a huge thing. I feel like... I was going to say, I feel like it might be better than Criminal Minds.

Here's the difference. Criminal Minds, I feel like, is scarier because you are reminded that there are people like that actually roaming the world, right? Stranger Things is monsters. It's the upside down world.

Oh, okay. You know, it's more science fiction. Monsters don't interest me.

Oh, but there's so much more behind the monsters. There's really character development and evolutions of character. Okay.

Character development of a monster. I suppose you didn't watch Walking Dead either. I did not.

Okay. Understood. Was that the zombie movie? It was a series.

Oh, series? A very well done series. Zombies don't interest me. Monsters don't interest me.

But it was all about... The zombies, I feel like, were just a side story. It was more about how would you survive? What are the tough decisions? So, naked and afraid with zombies. Yes, but this is life and death.

Tough decisions you would make to keep you and your family alive. Okay. We'll have to do a spinoff show talking about what shows do you like and why.

Oh my goodness gracious. That was like Sunday night date night at our house. We watched Walking Dead.

All right. Well, let's do this because I want to make sure we get through this. This is going to be a long episode, folks.

And the reason is we have an interview that I mentioned last week. We have David MacClennan from Even Kill Fish Shack. And we were originally going to do this interview together, but we could not, but we did not want to postpone it.

So, I interviewed David myself. And we're going to listen to that now. And then we'll come right back and get some feedback from Jen as she listens to it.

And for those that don't know David MacClennan of Even Kill Fish Shack, they have a chef-driven seafood haven in Lauderdale-by-the-Sea. And you're going to like this, folks. This is not your typical seed food place.

So, sit back, check out the interview, and then come right back afterwards to hear some thoughts from me and Jen. All right, folks. As mentioned, we are joined by David MacClennan from Even Kill Fish Shack.

And before we get started, Dave, I want to apologize to you. As we had talked about in the pre-show prep, you're a restaurant that a lot of us mistakenly go by on the way to someplace else. Yeah.

And that's a shame on us. But welcome to the show, Dave. Thank you.

Happy to be here. All right. So, Even Kill Fish Shack.

I did a little bit of looking up on that. And it seems to be a nice little restaurant. And you guys are known for doing fresh food.

Fresh food. You guys have no freezers there. Is that correct? We don't.

We have no walk-in. We do have a small freezer for shrimp and a couple of frozen items. But not much.

It's a little reach-in freezer. But we don't have a walk-in at all either. So they're all stand-up reach-ins.

So the space is fully maximized, to say the least. Now, let me ask you, what was it that inspired you to open up a restaurant back here in Fort Lauderdale? Because even though you grew up here, you left and came back, right? I did. Yeah.

So I grew up here. I went to high school here. And then I went to college at UF.

Kind of got into food at that time and then went to culinary school. And while I was in culinary school, I started working for my mentor, Dean Max. So I opened up several restaurants with him across the country.

And before moving back here, I was living in California, in the Long Beach, Seal Beach area, Southern California. And we had kind of discussed about doing our own project. I worked for Marriott, essentially, directly for the Marriott Family Trust.

And I always talked about coming back home. I had moved since, I guess it was 2006, I had moved away. So I was kind of ready to come back to Florida.

It's always been my home. And we kind of talked about this concept of doing modern American seafood in a, and obviously a very coastal environment where we kind of felt there wasn't a lot of representation as far as that goes for this kind of like a chef-driven seafood market. You have a lot of like dive seafood places in Fort Lauderdale.

And then you have some very high-end places, which I don't want to say overpriced, but they're priced to a point where you're not able to go there on a regular basis. They're kind of more special occasion. And I could never really understand why there wasn't this middle of the road seafood market in Fort Lauderdale with all this product that we have available to us here, right out front in the ocean.

And so many restaurants are using seafood from other places and getting in frozen fish from the New England area for example, for like fish and chips and things like that. So we do a fish and chips with local money. Well, that is fantastic.

And I will say that back when my wife and I were going out, that was a big thing. Now she's from Ohio, but for some reason she loves seafood and she loves lobster for some reason. So going out to find affordable lobster years ago was difficult.

Yeah, still is. I mean, obviously still is. And we try to be as approachable as we possibly can for the product that we're buying.

The challenging part is that we're still buying very high-quality stuff and fresh product. So to try and make it affordable where it's something that you can come get on a regular basis is a challenge, obviously, for seafood. Just saying, good seafood is not cheap and cheap seafood is not good.

Now you mentioned the fact that others are sourcing their food, I guess you would say, from other locations. They're getting it shipped in and stuff. How are you able to source your stuff locally and stay affordable? Yeah, I mean, we obviously have to do a mix of the same thing where not everything is locally available here.

We just try to focus on it as much as possible. So we have great shrimp suppliers out of Cape Canaveral that do local shrimp where it is a little bit more cost prohibitive. We pay a little bit more.

Sometimes I'm not sure if people really care, but I do. So we still kind of stick by it a little bit. But the US in general imports a lot of seafood, even though we have a lot.

We export a lot too, which is odd. So we just try to use stuff that's in season and local whenever it's possible. We do a pretty big oyster program.

So obviously, a lot of that stuff is coming from very cold waters. I'm more partial to the Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island varietals. So we do have to bring those in.

But since we opened in 2019 in our original location, we've just developed a relationship with enough purveyors that we can start kind of slowly handpicking what we get from local guys and what's available to us and still have it be affordable. A lot of its volume driven too. Right.

Since you brought it up, I was going to not ask this, but you opened in 2019, the year before 2020, the year of our COVID. That had to be a rough time, but you survived. You're still here.

Tell me about going through that period. Yeah. We had such a great experience opening the restaurant initially on Federal Highway in a much larger space.

This shows about Fort Lauderdale and the evolution of it. So that was the old Bobby Rubino space when I was growing up as a kid. So it was kind of cool for us to take that over when we first launched the concept.

Much bigger space. It's like 6,500 square feet. We opened in January of 2019.

So had those first year, get over the hump of the first year. Anybody that tells you a restaurant business is not profitable the first year, you're kind of developing everything and we're spending money to develop the concept as we go. So we hit that January 2020 mark and we're like, wow, okay, cool.

This is actually working. The bank account is going up, not down. And we had launched a food truck at the wharf as well with their opening as well.

And that was really wildly successful too right off the bat for us. Just because the clientele there was fantastic. You had such a huge boating community there and families and all that stuff.

And we were doing numbers I couldn't imagine out of a food truck without selling any beverage at all. So January 2020, we did it. This is going to be a viable project for us.

And it's kind of like late February. We're like, this is weird. What's happening? I'm not huge into the news.

I'm aware of it, but I just try to silence a lot of it because there is a lot of noise. Yeah. So this whole coronavirus thing started popping up and whatever, bird flu, swine flu, whatever.

It's every year there's something. So the first place that we got affected by was at the wharf. They came a week earlier and said that we were going to be shut down for 10 days there because it was such a busy environment.

I guess they targeted the wharf first and we're just floored. We're like, how are we going to be closed for 10 days? Shortly thereafter, obviously the whole thing happened where the world got shut down. And that was a big challenge for me, definitely mentally.

I'm a chef by trade and a business owner. I like to be in control of things a little bit. And there was really no control that you could have on what was happening at that point in time.

So that was kind of challenging for me to kind of figure out what were we going to do? How are we going to keep this alive? I think a lot of us were there. So my wife was actually in the hospital and the first week or so of March and when we came out is when they decided to shut everything down. I was so busy doing my business, running to the hospital.

I didn't think to go get toilet paper or anything that everybody had talked about. So it was a rough time. And yeah, if you didn't pay attention to the news, it could kind of sneak up on you there.

And so I was lucky. A lot of my clients deemed themselves as, what was the term? Essential. Right.

Lawyers, for some reason, always think they're essential. So they kept working and my business kept going. Restaurants were not deemed essential.

And I know there was a lot of adjustments. Some started doing the grub hub and the delivery and stuff. You had the restaurant, you had the food truck.

Were you able to make any shifts with the food truck or just wait it out? No, the truck that we had at the wharf was a trailer. So it wasn't movable. And we actually had a structure built around it.

And so there was no real use for it. We considered doing some... There's a lot of places doing a lot, focusing on the takeout stuff. And we explored that.

We did a few Friday pop-ups, drive-thru type things. Our food just didn't really lend to it. It's seafood.

So the majority of it was not... We had a pizza oven there. So that was something that we were obviously able to do quite a bit of, was the pizza during that time. But we weren't a pizza restaurant.

So I don't think it was necessarily what people thought of at first, when they thought of Even Keel. A lot of people came for the pizza and loved it. But the majority of our sales were scallops and snapper entrees and stuff like that at the time.

So it's not really a takeout item. So initially, just not knowing how long this was going to last, we're like, let's just see what develops. And then two weeks, it's going to be three, it's going to be a month.

And then it kept dragging on and on. And that's when we're like, all right, we need to start. We got to pivot here and figure out what's going to happen.

And our landlord, they wanted to stay whole through the whole thing. And that was a challenge for us, obviously, just because the space was so large. You know, we were only in our first year.

So there wasn't reserves to just throw away. I don't think anybody had reserves to throw away. And to be honest, most places that survived, the landlord had to work with their tenants.

We kind of negotiated at that point in time that said like, hey, you know, they gave us an opportunity to defer the rent. And this was before reopening actually happened. So I'm like, listen, I don't know what's going to happen.

We couldn't have predicted this. So the only reason, the only way I would accept those terms is if we have like an out at the end of the year. And you just let us like free and clear rent at that point, or the lease at that point.

So they were gracious enough to do that. During that time period, we saw the space that we're currently in now in Montero by the sea available. And we're like, you know, it's an outdoor space.

It's much smaller, you know, when this, you know, everybody was talking outdoor at the time. So we started exploring that. And, you know, I don't know if you remember, like there was, you know, Florida reopened in the middle of summer.

And we had this, there was a nice little like pop for us when we first reopened. And then that second, second wave came or whatever. And people started freaking out again.

And they started getting tightened on the restrictions again. So we had this like little roller coaster happening from a, from a business volume at the time. The city was still very like, you know, that's 50% occupancy thing, which.

Yeah. And the curfew and. Yeah.

Having a 6,000 square foot space where you have to have people six feet apart from each other. You know, it's, it's really not even 50% because there's no way to configure it that way, where you're going to have a six foot halo around people to die and use half of your seat. So it was, you know, and they were coming, they were, they were coming into the restaurants in the middle of like, you know, Friday nights.

And, and, and it just, it's a, it's an unsettling feeling for people to have. Officials walking into a business and, and, you know, like what, you know, what's, what's happening. Right.

I think Miami is going through right now for other reasons. Yeah. All right. 

So you, so you, you guttered it out. And at the end of the year, you had that out clause. I assume that that's when you said, you know, it's time to move.

And the other place, which your current location, the corner of A1A and commercial. Yeah. So that was available.

It's a nice place by the way. It is. Yeah.

I mean, we're, we're, we're super fortunate that it was um, the, the, we kind of shifted the concept a little bit to, to the Lotto by the sea, like beach vibe, um, still the same quality of ingredients, but we wanted to, you know, obviously the space is, you're dictated by the space a little bit as to what you're going to, what you're going to do. Right. And that's where I wanted to apologize because the space you're at now, uh, is on the way to the beach for most of us, uh, or Aruba's as, as people, you know, Aruba's on the beach.

Uh, there's actually another drinking place that my, my basketball buddy is and I would go to and which one, um, Oh, what? It was right next to Athena. Um, Oh, uh, like it used to be Mulligan's on the corner. Yeah. 

It used to be Mulligan's. Yeah. 101 is now.

Yeah. Yeah. And then there's the village pump is great too.

That's been around since I was around forever. Yeah. Um, and it's one of those things where, you know, we live in such a great city and there's so many things to do.

And we just don't pay attention. And I, I know I've walked by your space many times. Yeah.

Um, and that's going to change. Yeah. I appreciate that.

No, I mean, that's, and we, you know, again, we, we know that too. And it's, you know, we're on the, you know, everybody's like, Oh, you're on the corner of commercial and A1A. It's such great visibility.

It truly is. I mean, I think that's, it, it, it gives a lot of benefit to us. Um, but like you mentioned sometimes, you know, when you're coming into, uh, a very centric area like that, where there's a lot going on, you, you'd be remiss to stop at the first place that you see, you kind of want to see what's going on and, you know, inside.

And, um, you know, that you get kind of sucked into the middle of it, a little bit of the centric area. Um, we're very blessed though, that, that we have a lot of people that, especially in Lauderdale, I see that come, you know, for months or weeks at a time. And, you know, they're obviously hitting up a lot of places and it's amazing to me how many, uh, visitors come that say, Hey, this is the only place we came three or four times in our, in our stay.

Or, you know, we came a couple of times. It's our last day and we're heading to the airport now, but we had to come back one more time. So we're very lucky.

And as far as that goes, that we're able to, I think once we get people in there, they're, they're committed. Right. Now you talk about the fact that a lot of visitors come, how are you getting, um, people to your place? Is it a lot of locals or are you getting, you know, tourists? And how are you getting the tourists by the way? It's, it's a huge mix there for sure.

Um, you know, that's, that's one, again, one of the beauties of Lauderdale by the sea is that it's, you know, it, to me, it's the locals beach, I think, you know, most locals are going there. Most locals are not going to Fort Lauderdale beach, just because it's so chaotic and, you know, hotels and stuff like that. So that's kind of the locals beach.

So we get a lot of, there's a lot of residents right in the area too. So, uh, you know, those are built in. Those are the, you know, we, we, we really rely on them all year round.

Um, the visitors, you know, visitors kind of stumble upon us because of the location. And, and, you know, now with, with, uh, you know, digital, the digital world and, and, um, Yelp and Google maps and all those things and your ratings, those are, those play a huge part to it. We have very favorable ratings.

So I think a lot of people, you know, when they search seafood near me or something, and we pop up at 4.5 to 4.7 on most of the platforms, um, that definitely gets us, you know, uh, attracted to, you know, to some of the, the, the visitors for sure. Yep. You're rated high on TripAdvisor. 

I know that. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't even look at TripAdvisor. Is it a 3.8 out of four or 4.8 out of five, whichever, I mean, you're literally right there. I'm not sure TripAdvisor.

Um, we focus a lot on Google and, and, and Yelp. Um, I should do more with TripAdvisor because those are like, that's kind of the season traveler for sure. Um, Yelp can be a little, you know, the people that go on Yelp sometimes are like.

Yelp is Yelp is the TikTok of restaurants, um, you know, if it could blow up on you or it could be really great for you. Um, but you guys have done well on, on all platforms as far as I can tell. Yeah.

Um, so let me ask this. You, you, you grew up where you were born in Fort Lauderdale, right? Yeah. Born and raised. 

Then you decided to go to Gainesville. And if I remember researching you, you went to school for engineering. I did. 

Yeah. Then, and then you ended up switching in the middle of school into the culinary arts. Um, what was that like? I mean, how does that happen? So I was always, I was always, I have a strong math background. 

That's, I just always did very well in math. Um, I did very well in school without trying a whole lot. I wasn't a big studier, but I just naturally kind of had good grades and had a great SAT score. 

So didn't really know what, you know, 17, 18 years old. I graduated from Gibbons. I actually went to middle school in Pinecrest from like sixth to eighth grade. 

So that, you know, that's I'm very fortunate there as far as education goes to, to get a leg up on a lot of people. Cause that, you know, it's just, it's, you go, you go to a school like Pinecrest or private school down here. It's, it's very different. 

Um, so I was very lucky in that regard. Pinecrest. I played ball there on the weekends. 

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I, I didn't know what I wanted to do. 

I was 17, 18 years old. Right. So, um, you know, it's like, you're good at math, go be an engineer. 

I knew I didn't want to, I knew I wanted something a little bit different. So I did study industrial engineering, which is more like the, it's the systems, uh, engineering. So, you know, really the focus of it would be like business after optimization. 

Uh, it's probably geared mostly towards like industrial, like factory stuff, like, you know, how to, how to optimize a factory and the systems. Um, but, uh, it had more of a business aspect to it than, than let's say just, uh, any other, you know, I guess civil engineer or anything like that. Um, my, my dad was actually one of the partners that opened, uh, Casablanca when I was a kid. 

So I was like 10 years old when, when he opened that. So I was always kind of grew up around the restaurant industry and I watched him, you know, build that whole thing. And I would go there and hang out, see the restaurant and kind of fell in love with the industry. 

Um, so when I was in college, all my jobs were in restaurants and food. And so it kind of became this, I was like, I'm not loving what I'm doing as, as my classes go. Uh, I don't think I want to go to culinary school. 

So I'd have that conversation about leaving university of Florida and going to culinary school. So that was challenging, you know, obviously like to give it to my parents, like, you know, my, my dad was in the restaurant business. So it was like, you're not going to be a blind cook. 

You know, that's not, you're going to be like, I was going to ask, were you doing any of that already? Were you, were you cooking or were you just doing the odd jobs here and there? Yeah, I was, um, every, everything, every job I've ever had has been in food industry. So my first job was washing dishes at, uh, Edelweiss, uh, pastry, which is the bakery on commercial, like a German bakery. And the guy that was the baker there just wanted to teach me everything. 

Again, I was like 15, 16 years old. I wanted, you know, I, I wanted a job, but at the same time, it wasn't like, it's, you're not, you're not doing your passion yet. I didn't know it would be right. 

Um, but, uh, and then a friend of mine worked at the fish peddler out West and he was like, Oh, come work with me, you know, after school. And I'm like, okay. So I started doing that. 

So, um, you know, so every job I've ever had has been in the food industry. And when I went to college, I was, I was working as a line cook. Um, so yeah, my parents were like, that's, you can't be a line cook your whole life, you know? And I'm like, I'm not going to be a line cook. 

That's not, you know, like, yes, that's part of it. That's part of like the, the career, but you know, like, that's not my aspect. My aspiration is not to stay a line cook.

Right. Um, so let's see, uh, I don't know the timeframe. We didn't talk about age or years and stuff, but that seems to be around the time that iron chef, uh, was coming out.

Bobby Flay was getting all popular and all of that. Did you have ambitions at that time to, to do those things? I love that show. That was, that was one of my favorite shows. 

Um, you know, it's, it's crazy to me because I've met a lot of my like idols at this point in, in food. Um, uh, just like the TV, like food network could just become popular. Like when I was in high school and, uh, you know, you start seeing all these guys, like making careers at a show, it became very glamorous. 

Right. It was like, it was the modern rock star was the, was the chef. So, um, yeah, that's, uh, I, I did, I did watch that quite frequently and it did kind of like shape me a little bit into wanting to do that. 

All right. Um, yeah, I, I watch beat Bobby Flay and it is just amazing to, uh, to see what the mind of a chef is like, you know, to be able to, you know, people are coming in with their signature dish, something they had, they have made for years and years in years. And half the time, Bobby either hasn't heard of it or has never made it. 

Yeah. And just things I'll just throw this together and see what happens. Yeah. 

That's a challenge. I mean, I, you know, not many chefs can do that. Um, it is, that's, that's the crazy thing about food too, is that a guy that's that season too, you know, there's, you don't, you, there's no way to know it all right. 

There's no way you will never learn everything. You know, there's, there's entire cuisines that you'll never know. It's been your entire life cooking and never have like, what is that ingredient? So, uh, so you, you've got, you know, even kill working, everybody loves it.

Um, you've focused on, you know, being the, the local seafood spot. What's the secret to keeping it to where your style and your menu appeals to, you know, the broad masses, because, you know, people are getting to be finicky and picky and oh yeah. They all think they're food critics and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, that's the challenging part. 

You know, I always say like the people, the people aspect of the business is the hardest part for sure between, you know, managing staff and personality and trying to accommodate them and then having, and then guests as well. It's like, I, I sometimes I wish that I missed the days of being a line cook where your only responsibility is we're making the food. Um, but yeah, we do have to be very mindful of that stuff. 

And, and, you know, there's, we, we try things and some things work. Some things don't. Um, sometimes we try things for longer than we should just because of our own egos, right? 

That we, that we're, it's something that we, that we really enjoy. And we try to, you know, we want other people to enjoy it as much as we do. And, and sometimes it doesn't happen that way. 

So we have to be thoughtful that it's, it's really kind of, you know, menu engineering, uh, is, is a, is a huge part of it and making sure that we, that we're looking at those metrics and, and, okay, this dish doesn't sell, you know, we got to, we just got to pull it. It's what it is. Um, try something new, but it's funny.

Like the, you know, that you talk about the people aspect of it and like everyone being a food critic, I had a, I had a couple in last night that it's, sometimes I don't, I don't know how to like handle these situations where like people, I don't know what they say. The weirdest things, like they came in and they're like, we're from Florida. And I'm like, me too. 

Yeah. We're in Florida. And they're like, how do you have oysters right now? It’s because they're not in season.

I'm like, are you talking about stone crabs? Like no oysters. We can't get oysters right now. It's illegal. 

And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like there's, we have oysters all year round. Like are they frozen? I'm like, no, we don't do frozen oyster. Like never zero frozen oysters. 

Like they're, you know, they, I think people get, I don't know. Like I know the whole like oyster, like the whole, well, you know, obviously the temperature is warmer in the summer. Um, but I think that's where a lot of like people that are from this area get confused too with, with like, we're not, we're not doing raw oysters out of, you know, Florida waters for the most part. 

Uh, we do Gulf oysters for cooking, but the Prince Edward Island oysters that we get for all year round. I mean, if you were to go jump in the water right now and in Nova Scotia, you would freeze your ass off. It's still 55, 60 degrees. 

So there is no, there is no, you know, the, the, those, the, the old adage of like months that end in R or whatever are the only ones that eat oysters or no. Was that a thing? I was sitting here thinking, I don't remember oysters ever being like in season or illegal. Uh, yeah, I, I, again, I have no idea what these people were talking about. 

Um, and it's so hard sometimes cause you're like, you know, they are customers, so you can't be like, yeah, Google was wrong. Sort of nice. I don't know. 

Like, I'm like, we have oysters all year round. I don't know. He's like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a shrimp boat captain. 

We can't get oysters. And I'm like, I don't know, man. And I'm like, we, we do Gulf oysters for roasting. 

He's like, Oh, they're not Florida then. And I'm like, okay, I'm just not going to argue this anymore. We actually, there is actually a, an oyster aquaculture farm here in Florida that does a really nice job. 

Like you don't think of it, you don't associate it as warmer, but, uh, they have some like cooler Springs that they do a really nice job with them. All right. Well, I just, I just did a quick AI search and apparently, so in Georgia, there is a legal oyster season from October 1st to the end of May in Carolina. 

Uh, there is a wild oyster season, Mississippi, Washington state. And basically these are, uh, recreational or what is that? You know, yeah. Recreational harvest, meaning like for the public person.

Right. Yeah. Wild oysters. 

Yeah. So that makes more sense too. I mean, they, the commercial, the commercial aquaculture season does not end at any point in time during the year.

All right. So, uh, David, let me ask you this. So you grew up in Florida, you went to school. 

Uh, I know that you did a lot of culinary stuff, you know, around the country. You were up in Ohio, out in California. You said, uh, what was the draw specifically to come back to Fort Lauderdale? Yeah. 

I mean, it's just, it was my home, you know? Um, so I just said, it's so many friends and family here. And so I was, I was always coming back here all the time. Um, I had, you know, I just always kind of had this, this dream of coming home and, and, you know, Dean, who was my mentor, um, you know, he lives in Deerfield. 

We, we had, we had kind of balanced back and forth about doing some different projects here for a long time. He, he never, so he, he started, he was the chef at 3030 when they opened it. And he was, you know, James Beard nomination, um, while he was there. 

Um, when he, he kind of grew his empire, so to speak into the, uh, the consulting world. Um, when he left 3030, he, he didn't have any, uh, any Florida projects for like, he's, he, he's just doing another one right now. But, uh, before we opened, it was probably about a 10 year gap between doing anything in Florida.

He'd been all over the country and Caribbean and Cayman islands. So we were just, you know, like, why are we not doing, why are we not doing a project at home? Like, you know, you live here. I that's where I'm from, you know, like it's where we met. 

Um, let's, uh, let's, let's open a concept down here. Um, was it the South Florida culture? Was it is, I mean, the food scene down here, it's, I don't want to say it's weird because as a, as a, as a public person, there are restaurants I like, and you know, there are some people that I go, Oh, you gotta go down and, you know, Los Olas or, you know, South beach. Um, and I hear of chefs down here getting on those food TV shows we talk about, uh, and stuff, but it doesn't seem to have that vivaciousness you hear of other places, but it's good down here, right? Yeah. 

Yeah. No, there's there, you know, it's amazing to me how far Miami has come right now. Uh, and, and Palm beach, you know, those, those markets Miami 15 years ago, you wouldn't go there for food and there was no, there was no real draw. 

It was, you know, it was touristy and that was it. Um, it, it really takes chefs to, to drive that, that, that shift. Um, you know, and you have all this Michelin stuff happening right now in Miami, which is amazing for Lauderdale is behind, in my opinion, behind the times right now, as far as the quality of restaurants, there are, there are great restaurants. 

Don't get me wrong. Um, it's just, you know, I lived in California for 10 years in Southern California. And it's like, if you weren't a great restaurant, you know, if you weren't using great ingredients and didn't have, and again, you have like, you have this talent pool of kitchen staff and chefs that helped elevate that experience too, which in turn elevates the diners. 

So, you know, it's weird here because there's so many restaurants in South Florida and Fort Lauderdale. Um, and I think a lot of them are very, they're the same. There's a lot, there's a lot of like repetition involved in most of them.

Yeah. Most of them are trying to duplicate the franchises, you know, or just to do that sort of, you know, you know, what, what is the, uh, turn, turn and burn, you know, just move the seats as fast as possible. Um, but my question is one more Italian restaurant here.

What can people like us do to help, you know, uh, your restaurant is, like I said, it, it has been, uh, when I look it up, you know, it's got high marks everywhere, but for some reason, I just hadn't been paying attention. And I, and again, I mentioned, I've been here since 92 and, you know, kind of fell into my shell and now I'm popping my head back up and it's like, okay, here's a great restaurant. How can we help, you know, spread the word? Yeah. 

I mean, it's, it's, it's an evolution. It really is. I mean, I think like, like I was saying, there's, it takes, it takes a chef driven community, which helps educate diners. 

So diners don't know if, if you're, if your experience is, you know, going to this, these same restaurants all the time, you, you, you end up developing what you like and it's what you know, and that's what you assume to be great. So if you've never had something, if you've never had something, you know, different, like you don't know what the difference is. So price point becomes a big part of that too. 

So then all of a sudden you have like a culture of people that, you know, are, they're so accustomed to cheap food. And it's, you know, it's, it's easy to do cheap food and, and, and, you know, throw, we buy it from Cisco and throw it in a fryer or whatever, you know, prepackaged and, and just warm it up. That's what, that's what people's taste buds become almost, you know, they get accustomed to that. 

So, but once you start getting people exposed to like what, what good food is, and I think that's starting to happen here. You know, you have, you have restaurants that have been popping up in the last few years that are, that are doing that, you know, heritage, like being a pizza place that's doing really, you know, elevated stuff and, and getting, you know, Michelin recognition and Timon Boulou opening up the Catherine and on Broward Boulevard and the old Foxy Brown space. And, you know, James Beard award winner, he's been on Food Network and done different shows.

The guy's a, you know, a culinary genius. It takes, it takes that type of stuff and, you know, mosque getting, you know, Michelin star recommendation. And it takes that to, for the food scene to really change and, and, and be elevated. 

It's, there's so many choices here. That's really the challenging part. So, you know, for us, we have to try and stand out somehow.

And that's, we're just, that's, that's kind of our, the Even Keel motto is we just want to stay steadfast and on our course. And we believe that it's going to happen from that. All right. 

So this is one of those interviews that I thought would be short, but I have more questions I want to ask. And the one question that just came up. So I'm having, you know, watch the food channel for many years. 

I hear, you know, James Beard, I hear Michelin, I hear that, but I think the common person doesn't know what those are and what those mean. Can you real quick kind of describe what the Michelin rating is and some of those accolades? Yeah. I mean, so those from a, from a culinary perspective and from the culinary world, those are your, you know, that's, that's what you aspire to, to, to be recognized for as a culinary and as a chef. 

Those are like, you know, I was fortunate enough to cook at the James Beard house. Like I call it like the Mecca of, of the, of, of chefs, you know, to be able to go to the James Beard house and cook in it, you feel like you're, you know, you, that's, that's what you work for your entire life. And same thing with a Michelin guy. 

Like I have chef friends, Jeremy Ford, he just, I think he's three or four years in now on, on retaining his Michelin star. You know, it's, that's what you dream, you dream of your entire career, you know, is to, to be recognized by them. I think again, that's, there are new things here in South Florida and Fort Lauderdale. 

So that's why a lot of people don't know them as much. I mean, when I lived in California, it's like, you couldn't, you couldn't throw a rock and not hit a, a James Beard nomination. And you just, it's just no, everybody was doing great food. 

So, but those are, they're, they're basically the authority on who's doing a really good job. There is a lot of, with anything there's politics involved in and bureaucracy and, you know, it's, it's, you have the right PR firms that, that help get you on their radar, obviously. So it's not, you know, it's just because somebody doesn't have James Beard nomination or Michelin, Michelin guide, you know, recommendations doesn't mean they're not doing great stuff.

There's a ton of great restaurants still, but those are really some of the, the higher authorities as far as great food. I, I, I, you would be remiss to go to one of those places and not have a good experience. You mentioned it, it sounded like you said your buddy there was in his third or fourth year at the Michelin is, is that something that is, you know, once you get it, you get it, or is it something that you have to maintain? Yeah, no, you have to maintain it.

And I think that's, that's, I think most chefs would say the most Michelin chefs that have earned a star, it's like harder to keep it than it is to, than it is to, to earn it the first time. I think anybody can, you know, if you really set your mind to anything, you could probably achieve, get to that level, right? Like once, you know, you gotta have the raw talent too, but, you know, if you're really focused on it for a year, you know, getting a Michelin star, I don't, it sounds like I'm downplaying. I'm not whatsoever. 

There's people that try their entire lives and never get it, but I would say retaining it is probably the hardest part because it's, it's, you have to do that day in day out every day for a long period of time. And that's the really hardest, that's the hardest thing about this business at all. I mean, just, you know, for us being a small restaurant, like I can't take my foot off the gas ever with, you know, you're dealing with human beings and staff, like they, they need constant, you know, motivation and constant appreciation, you know, constant criticism. 

If you stop doing any of those things for a period of time, it's, that's where you see, you know, how many restaurants do people say like, Oh, it went downhill. You know, it's because it's that hard every day to do the same thing, to push to that level. It's way harder than it is to get there one day.

And I imagine that it's gotta be harder because there's new restaurants opening all the time and people are like, well, let's go try this and see if it's, you know, and if it's, you know, 1% better, you know, you can lose that customer. Correct. It's the same thing with staff. 

I mean, like the, having, having great staff is a huge part of a success of a restaurant. I mean, you can't have a good restaurant without good staff and you just can't. I mean, obviously there's leadership involved that helps develop that, but you know, that's, that's a challenging part. 

Like, you know, we're fortunate to have great people. We've had great, we've had great people leave and do better things. I'm always excited for them when they take a new opportunity as a growth. 

You know, I hate, I hate seeing like, you know, a lead cook or something, go to another job to be another line cook somewhere else. If I have a guy that goes to a new job because he's a line cook and he's taking a sous chef job, that's, that's the best, you know, reward for me. I'm super excited for them. 

And I still talk to a lot of those guys that have, have left us and done those things, but having great staff, you know, we're blessed right now to have a couple of guys that we can really rely on that. I can't be there 24 hours a day. I don't want to be there 24 hours a day.

Can't. All right. Well, David, I want to say thank you for spending some time here and chatting with us. 

For those listening, Even Keel Fish Shack, Lauderdale by the sea, the corner of A1A and Commercial. It's definitely a place to visit. Coastal Florida cuisine. 

Chef-driven. Chef-driven. Which is a term that probably most of us have never heard. 

Yeah, it's one of those buzzwords, right? Yeah. David, so at some point Jen and I will get over there and say hello to you. But in the meantime, we'll, we'll drive people to that, to the place and we'll look forward to chatting with you again.

All right. Look forward to it. All right. 

Thank you much. Cheers. Okay, Jen, there we go. 

David MacClennan, Evenfish, Even Keel Fish Shack. Lucky for us, he changed direction. Yes.

From engineering to culinary. Absolutely. I mean, what a gem in our community because of that.

Yeah. It's not the way it always happens though. People just, you find your, your course after you start out on your journey, right? How many people actually do what they went to school for? I'm not one.

Did you? No. What'd you go to school for? Hospitality management. Oh yeah, that's right. 

I remember. Yes. But you're close. 

I'm close, but... I'm nowhere close. You are nowhere close. So tell, tell me again. 

Marketing. So I, so my undergrad degree was business administration. That's right. 

Okay. With a minor in math. Math.

Yeah. Math, tech. And then I went to graduate school. 

We're not going to talk about that. And then when I came to Florida, I was a director of marketing for Junior Achievement. Marketing. 

Yeah. And you are doing none of that now. What? I mean, you have a business.

Yeah. I mean, but I was a jock in high school. Yeah. 

So back in the 80s... You did say that. Jocks and geeks. There were two different worlds.

I was surprised to hear that you played ball at Pinecrest. Yeah. But I mean, I didn't go to Pinecrest.

But you played ball. But I play there. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. That was a surprise for me.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And local Gibbons guy. I mean, he's true blue. He was. 

He was. So tell me, besides the fact that he switched courses in his schooling, what stood out to you about the Fish Shack? So first of all, I need to go there right away because I'm hungry after listening to this. I was one of those believers that oysters had a season.

So I had a myth-busting experience listening. I was one of those people that he would probably laugh at, thinking that oysters you shouldn't be eating in the month. Right. 

That include an R. So other than that, I loved the quote that good seafood isn't cheap. Yes. Cheap seafood isn't good. 

And boy, isn't that right? You eat cheap seafood and you might be regretting it. It's funny because you would think it's the way it should be for all food. Right.

Good food isn't cheap, but that's not always the case. But for some reason, seafood, fresh seafood makes a big difference. Yeah. 

And I do think that we've become accustomed to a certain kind of food and level of food. And so it's nice to hear not only even Kiel is leveling up and really catering to making sure they have that fresh menu, but he did give some nods to some other establishments in the community that are leveling up their menus as well and their food sources. I want to go to see if they truly don't have a walk-in fridge.

I think we should. How do you keep that food fresh? I mean, I didn't ask him. I should have.

Do they truck it in every morning? Follow-up question. Yes. But I do want to go there.

I was impressed. I mean, gosh, what a heartbreaking story. You're doing so well.

You're ready to hit that tipping point of success and here comes COVID. Yeah. But they did it.

It's interesting too, because even though that original location, the old Bobby Rubino's, which I remembered as well, would go there all the time for the ribs. Oh, yeah. But it's a nice location, but I don't think it would have been recognized as a seafood location.

Right, right. I mean, to have a place literally blocks from the beach makes a difference. It does. 

It does. You get the whole vibe there too. So I'm looking forward to it.

Did you hear what they're doing this weekend? What they are doing this weekend? Yes. Well, I know that they're part of Dine Out Lauderdale for the next two months. They are. 

They are. And August 9th, they're doing a special oyster event. Pearl Jam.

What is it? Pearl Jam by the Sea? I shouldn't say Pearl Jam is playing there. Well, I think I read that there's going to be a Pearl Jam inspired band. They will have live music.

This is Saturday or is Saturday, August 9th or Sunday, August 9th? From 12 to 3. Oysters, bubbles, and tunes. All you can eat oysters. How many oysters do you think you can eat? Yeah.

Five? I might, give me a dozen. $75 for all you can eat oysters and bubbly. Get out.

And if you want a VIP seat at the bar, it's $125. Okay. So don't miss that one.

That sounds amazing. I'll have to see if we can get over there. I'm assuming it'll be crowded.

Yeah. They're selling tickets in advance. Okay.

Yeah. So we can include that link. See if they're available.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess I didn't look.

Shoot. It's this weekend. It is this weekend.

Not too far away. It's Saturday because school starts Monday on the 11th. So there we go.

Saturday, August 9th. So if you need one more bash before getting the kids back to school, this is where you should go. No, August 9th is Saturday.

Yeah. Yep. 10th.

Okay. Yeah. Kids go back to school Monday.

And they're open. I think their hours are 11 to 11, but is this all day? I believe this is just 12 to 3. 12 to 3. Yeah. Yeah.

It's presented by Visit Lauderdale's Food and Wine Fest and Mike Mayo's Lunchbox. Okay. Yeah.

So if Mike Mayo's behind it, you know it's a good thing too. It should be. Well, folks, that's it.

So, I mean, great event. Great restaurant. Even Keel Fish Shack in Lauderdale by the Sea.

Make sure you check it out. And especially on Saturday from 12 to 3. But of course, they are, as I mentioned, a part of Dine Out Lauderdale. Something that's going on August 1st through the end of September.

Is there a deal online? I just... Their restaurant, they have the menus online, but I don't know if it's the... But we know that Dine Out Fort Lauderdale is giving great deals. Anywhere from, I think, what? $35 for lunches. $35 to start, yeah.

Up to $75 for dinners. So check them out. Yep.

So, yeah, we're going to leave you with that. A very good interview. We'll be doing more of those.

So check back. Share and like and do all that stuff. We have a Facebook page, by the way, too.

We do. Yeah. And of course, I didn't have the link with me.

It's Let's Talk Lauderdale. Just, yeah, facebook.com slash Let's Talk Lauderdale. We'll be posting announcements when our episodes go live.

We'll probably do some other stuff there. But join our Facebook page there and follow us. And we might be doing some other social medias down the road.

Let us know if there's something you want us to check out in the city. We would be happy to visit. And let us know what your Sunday night TV show is.

Are you a Walking Dead fan? If you're a Walking Dead fan. Or Stranger Things. So, all right.

Well, Jen, this should be good. Thank you very much. And we'll be back next week.

All right. See you next week. See you, folks.

Bye. Bye.